Non-Revenue Sports Also Mired in Mediocrity
Guenther lovers always point to the non-revenue sports as an example of the great job done by Lord Guenther. Well, now it's not only football and men's basketball in the toilet!
The men's tennis team, usually a powerhouse, got smoked last week and barely have enough players to field a team. The women's basketball team is now tied for 10th in the Big 10 and is on track to have its lowest attendance since the 1994-95 season. Move the ladies to Huff Gym!
But hey, Coach Guenther attended the women's basketball game last night! All is well!!!!!
The men's tennis team, usually a powerhouse, got smoked last week and barely have enough players to field a team. The women's basketball team is now tied for 10th in the Big 10 and is on track to have its lowest attendance since the 1994-95 season. Move the ladies to Huff Gym!
But hey, Coach Guenther attended the women's basketball game last night! All is well!!!!!
posted by Fire Ron Guenther at 6:52 AM
44 Comments:
So far Jolette Law looks like another home run hire by the Football Guy.
She gets in a spat with one of her asst coaches who leaves a month before practice starts, leaving her with an opening spot on the staff all season.
The crown jewel of her recruiting class gets pissed off about the asst coach leaving and she leaves as well.
She puts the blame for the losses on the seniors and benches them.
Attendance looks like it will be at it's worst since Grentz's first year.
You forgot to mention the details - the #15 men's tennis team lost to the #2 team in the nation.
And it's Huff Hall you idiot! Don't you claim to be an alumnus?
Josh Brent is at Parkland this semester working on his grades. 3-9 next season! Guy from Hudson, Ohio will be the only fan at Memorial Stadium!
" Anonymous said...
You forgot to mention the details - the #15 men's tennis team lost to the #2 team in the nation.
And it's Huff Hall you idiot! Don't you claim to be an alumnus?"
He didn't forget, it just doesn't fit his agenda. You'll notice he didn't mention anything about the other numerous non revenue programs. Also, didn't blog anything about the recent big road win for the men's BB team.
If I followed a similar method in analyzing frg's performance, I'd post about how he frequently loses legal cases where the evidence is in his favor and nothing else. Or I'd post about how it's hard to believe that such a math 'tard graduated from a B10 school. Instead, I'll post a more balanced evaluation...as soon as I find something he does well. LOL
"And it's Huff Hall you idiot! Don't you claim to be an alumnus?"
It used to be known as Huff Gym (you idiot!).
"Also, didn't blog anything about the recent big road win for the men's BB team."
Beating Penn State is a "big road win?" They're the worst team in the Big Ten!
A "big road win" would be if we beat OSU or Wisconsin on the road. Penn State a big road win? Sheesh - no wonder you're happy with Ron Guenther and Bruce Weber.
wrestling team-going downhill, 6-4 in dual meets.
men's track-head coach suddenly resigned last fall, team never finished in top half of Big 10.
baseball-mediocre.
softball-underachieving.
women's soccer-losing season.
It hasn't been called Huff Gym in 20 years (you ignorant idiot!). The name was changed when the volleyball team moved from Kenney Gym to Huff to give the venue a more prestigious-sounding name.
Stop llving in the past!!!!!
I thought wrestling, track, baseball, and women's-anything didn't even count according to your argument. Why do you keep bringing them up? Do do they matter or not?
"baseball-mediocre."
The same baseball team that took a series from last year's national champion on the road?
So much for your credibility.
"Anonymous said...
It hasn't been called Huff Gym in 20 years (you ignorant idiot!). The name was changed when the volleyball team moved from Kenney Gym to Huff to give the venue a more prestigious-sounding name.
Stop llving in the past!!!!!"
With Kevin it's more about being ignorant rather than about living in the past.
hey how did the baseball team do in the NCAA tournament last year? Oh wait....
"Anonymous said...
hey how did the baseball team do in the NCAA tournament last year? Oh wait...."
Only three teams from the B10 made the tournament and they finished fourth at 16-8 in the conference. I don't consider that mediocre compared to your posts and frg's lawyering record.
16-8 in the B10, 34-20 overall, beat the NC team at their house and their mediocre! Another blow to what was left of your credibility.
I love how I made two comments - one about the basketball team and one about the semantics concerning the place where the volleyball team plays - and you and your friend debate over semantics.
Kinda telling, I think.
"Kevin said...
I love how I made two comments - one about the basketball team and one about the semantics concerning the place where the volleyball team plays - and you and your friend debate over semantics.
Kinda telling, I think."
Kind of telling that those were the only two things you posted that had anything close to substance in them. Par for your course.
"So far Jolette Law looks like another home run hire by the Football Guy."
An intelligent fan would give a new coach a sufficient opportunity before calling her a failure.
"She gets in a spat with one of her asst coaches who leaves a month before practice starts, leaving her with an opening spot on the staff all season.
The crown jewel of her recruiting class gets pissed off about the asst coach leaving and she leaves as well."
It'a not like players and coach leave every program. It was also the second rated recruiting class in the country so there are other very good freshmen.
"She puts the blame for the losses on the seniors and benches them."
Per the article I read she was just looking to change up the lineup, I read nothing about blaming anyone.
"Attendance looks like it will be at it's worst since Grentz's first year."
It's not like this is a revenue program that supports itself and other parts of the DIA.
I notice a trend here, you focus on the negative and interpret everything in that light to "make" your case. Although, you do fit in nicely here with the rest of the haters.
What? No reply from the hater who posted that the 16-8, 34-20, Illini BB team is mediocre. Heck you could reverse that record and you'd beat frg's lawyering record. Now that's mediocre!
"An intelligent fan would give a new coach a sufficient opportunity before calling her a failure."
And a hayseed would continue to make excuses and defend poor performance.
" Anonymous said...
"An intelligent fan would give a new coach a sufficient opportunity before calling her a failure."
And a hayseed would continue to make excuses and defend poor performance."
I gotta say, it's hard to argue with a post this stupid.
Another struggling non revenue program-
COLUMBUS, Ohio - The No. 1 Illini men's gymnastics team (6-0, 5-0 Big Ten) returned to action Saturday afternoon, downing Big Ten foe No. 5 Ohio State (3-3, 2-3 Big Ten), 349.700-341.350. As a team, Illinois posted the top score in five of the six events, including rings, which the Buckeyes had ranked first in entering the meet. Individually, freshman Yoshi Mori led the team with first-place finishes in the all-around (87.400), parallel bars (14.450) and high bar (15.000).
"I was very impressed with Yoshi's performance today," associate head coach Justin Spring said. "He only had two weeks to train for the all-around and did a great job. I'm pretty happy overall with our performance, but it's early in the season and we still have a lot of work to do and mistakes to clean up."
Sophomore Tyler Mizoguchi finished in the top three in four different events, including floor (1st; 15.150), rings (2nd; 14.800), all-around (2nd; 86.300) and parallel bars (3rd; 14.150) and notched career-high scores on the floor, rings and all-around. Junior Daniel Ribeiro won his second straight title on the pommel horse with a score of 15.450 and senior Brian Liscovitz posted a career best on the high bar (14.850) to finish in second place in the event.
Select members of the Illinois men's gymnastics team will be in action next weekend at the U.S. Winter Cup Challenge, Feb. 4 and 6 in Las Vegas.
The revenue producing sports are the only things we as Illinois fans should care about. The mismanagement of football and men's basketball supersede any successes in the non-revenue producing ones.
" Anonymous said...
The revenue producing sports are the only things we as Illinois fans should care about."
Sorry, I care about non revenue sports and it's not really your place to tell me what I should or shouldn't care about.
"The mismanagement of football and men's basketball"
Despite frg's pathetic attempts to prove otherwise, the BB team has not been mismanaged.
"...supersede any successes in the non-revenue producing ones."
The lack of success in football in no way detracts from the success in other programs. It actually makes the success in the rest of the athletic programs that much more impressive.
You need to start over with this post.
Ducey's a jagbag!
" Anonymous said...
The revenue producing sports are the only things we as Illinois fans should care about. The mismanagement of football and men's basketball supersede any successes in the non-revenue producing ones."
I ran track and played golf in high school and played recreational league VB after graduating college.
Why am I not allowed to care about these Illinois programs?
"Anonymous said...
The revenue producing sports are the only things we as Illinois fans should care about. The mismanagement of football and men's basketball supersede any successes in the non-revenue producing ones."
This reads like something that you post without thinking about what you're typing first.
"Despite frg's pathetic attempts to prove otherwise, the BB team has not been mismanaged."
One of the top overall programs in the country from 99-06 and 0 tournament wins from 07-now. If that's not evidence of mismanagement, what is?
"The lack of success in football in no way detracts from the success in other programs. It actually makes the success in the rest of the athletic programs that much more impressive."
This might be the dumbest thing I've read from a Pro-Guenther idiot yet.
"This might be the dumbest thing I've read from a Pro-Guenther idiot yet."
Pales in comparison to the ignorance of Kevin's New Math for Determining the Winning % of Athletic Programs.
You're selling yourself way short as that comes close to topping the list.
Ducey has scrotum breath!
" Kevin said...
"Despite frg's pathetic attempts to prove otherwise, the BB team has not been mismanaged."
One of the top overall programs in the country from 99-06 and 0 tournament wins from 07-now. If that's not evidence of mismanagement, what is?
"The lack of success in football in no way detracts from the success in other programs. It actually makes the success in the rest of the athletic programs that much more impressive."
This might be the dumbest thing I've read from a Pro-Guenther idiot yet."
Remember what I posted, Kevin? The haters pick select numbers, NCAA tournaments wins, over select time frames, 07-now, to attempt to proove their point.
Why are the other numbers and time frames not relevant? Also, it's obvious that Weber had issues with recruiting and those have been corrected. So now it's only a matter of time before the program is back to where it was. So are you going to come back here a year from now and post that you were wrong about Weber?
My suspicion is that just like the other haters here, you'll be harping on previous numbers or you'll find some other inumbers of limited scope to whine about.
"The haters pick select numbers, NCAA tournaments wins, over select time frames, 07-now, to attempt to proove their point."
That's not a "select" number. It's the moment players who played for Self were gone judged by the most important result to a major basketball program.
"it's obvious that Weber had issues with recruiting and those have been corrected."
It's not obvious they've been corrected.
"it's only a matter of time before the program is back to where it was."
That's wildly optimistic and by no means a certainty.
If we make the Elite Eight or better next year, the facts will support a reevaluation of Weber as a coach. Until then, they show him as a mediocre Big Ten coach.
"That's not a "select" number. It's the moment players who played for Self were gone judged by the most important result to a major basketball program."
Weber was the coach and I'm not getting the significance of who recruited them. And by all accounts, the recruits that Weber have coming in are better than those he inherited from Self. So this statement and those you made below do not add up. "Wins in NCAA tournaments being the most important result to a major program" is something you and the haters conveniently invented to fit the moment. Nice try.
"It's not obvious they've been corrected."
By the subjective systems that rating services use this is an incorrect statement. And this IS the best measure that can be used considering the recruits have yet to play a minute of college BB.
"That's wildly optimistic and by no means a certainty."
The last part of that sentence is just a brilliant deduction. Easy for you to make these statements, not so easy for the AD to make decisions with this simple thought process.
However, same coach working with better recruits leads to the conclusion that there's a strong possiblity of better play. I see from your response here that your not willing to take that leap. Or more likely, doing something like that just wouldn't support your current agenda.
"If we make the Elite Eight or better next year, the facts will support a reevaluation of Weber as a coach. Until then, they show him as a mediocre Big Ten coach."
Another standard to judge the coach and AD that came out of nowhere in particular? I'd love to hear the rationale for that one.
You can keep inventing new standards and slicing and dicing the numbers whatever way you want. However, I'll just keep tearing your "points" apart one by one.
"And by all accounts, the recruits that Weber have coming in are better than those he inherited from Self."
A flat-out lie. Brown was RSCI 19 and McBride was RSCI 28 when they graduated. Richmond was RSCI 18 last summer, but he's been dropping in the ratings, and Myers Leonard was 36th. If anything, they're roughly equal, but to say they're better is premature.
""Wins in NCAA tournaments being the most important result to a major program" is something you and the haters conveniently invented to fit the moment."
Success in the NCAA Tournament is how big-time college basketball coaches are evaluated. If you don't understand this, I can't help you.
"And this IS the best measure that can be used considering the recruits have yet to play a minute of college BB."
Raw rankings are an indicator of a recruit's ability, but the player also has to complement the squad already in place in order to have an immediate impact. Do we have anyone capable of playing PG coming in? No. Do we have anyone capable of defending the post coming in? No, at least not immediately. Where is Jereme Richmond going to get minutes? PF? Then he's a defensive liability. SF? Then he takes time from Paul or Richardson. You have to recruit a full basketball team, and Weber is a PG and a C short until at least 2012.
"same coach working with better recruits leads to the conclusion that there's a strong possiblity of better play."
You mean recruits like Shaun Pruitt and Rich McBride and Brian Randle and Brian Carlwell?
"there's a strong possiblity of better play. I see from your response here that your not willing to take that leap."
Try reading, moron. I'm skeptical that's it's *certain* Illinois' problems are fixed. I agree there's a strong possibility of better play next year compared to this year.
"You can keep inventing new standards and slicing and dicing the numbers whatever way you want."
Success in the NCAA tournament is not an invented standard. Judging a coach by his performance with the guys he's recruited and/or coached is not a new standard. If these are new standards to you, it's because you are the dumbest college basketball "fan" on the planet.
"Or more likely, doing something like that just wouldn't support your current agenda. "
My agenda is excellence in the Illinois basketball program. What's yours?
"A flat-out lie. Brown was RSCI 19 and McBride was RSCI 28 when they graduated. Richmond was RSCI 18 last summer, but he's been dropping in the ratings, and Myers Leonard was 36th. If anything, they're roughly equal, but to say they're better is premature."
Remember what I said about the haters using select data. Why do you only include two recruits from two classes to make comparisions? I actually know the answer to this one! It makes for good reading.
Kevin,
His name is Meyers Leonard, no Myers Leonard. Dumbass.
"Why do you only include two recruits from two classes to make comparisons?"
Because you made an easily-refutable statement?
You made the claim, not me. I found a giant hole in your argument (Brown and McBride both being higher-rated than anyone Weber has brought it) and you've done nothing to actually prove your statement.
If this were a court of law, your claim would be dismissed at this point.
" Kevin said...
"Why do you only include two recruits from two classes to make comparisons?"
Because you made an easily-refutable statement?
You made the claim, not me. I found a giant hole in your argument (Brown and McBride both being higher-rated than anyone Weber has brought it) and you've done nothing to actually prove your statement.
If this were a court of law, your claim would be dismissed at this point."
Once again, selective use of facts by a hater to support an agenda.
I made the claim that the recruits that he will be coaching are better than what he inherited from Self based on ratings. You selected two names that he inherited and two that he has signed. I believe there are over a dozen players on the team and five on the court at any one time. You ignored the players on the squad, 1 of the 3 that are signed and the 2 more that are committed!
I'm not sure how there is anyway you can rationalize your answer in a sport where FIVE players participate at all times. This weak argument reminds me of your attempt to calculate the AD's winning percentage. I'm anxiously awaiting your "logic" on that not so clever slight of hand.
The women's basketball team is in last place. Can the guy from Hudson, Ohio ask his daughter to play for Jolette Law?
"...the recruits that he will be coaching are better than what he inherited from Self based on ratings."
Guys Weber inherited:
Smith = 78 RSCI
Powell = 62 RSCI
Head = UR
Brown = 19 RSCI
Williams = 48 RSCI
Augustine = 78 RSCI
Spears = 86 RSCI
Ingram = UR
McBride = 28 RSCI
Randle = 53 RSCI
Carter = UR
The 2010 roster:
McCamey = 71 RSCI
Tisdale = UR
Cole = UR
Davis = UR
Jordan = UR
Simpson = UR
Richardson = 35 RSCI
Paul = 49 RSCI
Bertrand = UR
Griffey = UR
Richmond = 18 RSCI*
Leonard = 36 RSCI*
Head = 59 RSCI*
* = summer rankings
Weber inherited 8 top 100 guys; he will have 6 next year.
Going with a five-on-five-based analysis:
Williams > McCamey
Brown > Richardson
Head < Paul/Richmond
Powell > Davis/Griffey
Augustine > Tisdale
Bench '04 < Bench '10
The only way you could conceivably be right is if you did some screwy average of only the Top 100 players, and even then you'd be making the (erroneous) assumption that Head and Richmond will keep their rankings from last summer.
Or maybe you're taking the best 5 only, which would be dumb since only two of Richmond, Head, Paul, and Richardson will be on the floor at any given time.
As I said, at best it's even.
I'm thrilled about the recruits coming in, save the fact that Weber doesn't know how to balance classes. But to say the incoming recruits are better than what Weber inherited is dumb and overrates his coaching ability.
I should be the AD because I know everything.
I'd vote for Kevin to be the AD before Guenther gets another year.
"
Kevin said...
"...the recruits that he will be coaching are better than what he inherited from Self based on ratings."
Guys Weber inherited:
Smith = 78 RSCI
Powell = 62 RSCI
Head = UR
Brown = 19 RSCI
Williams = 48 RSCI
Augustine = 78 RSCI
Spears = 86 RSCI
Ingram = UR
McBride = 28 RSCI
Randle = 53 RSCI
Carter = UR
The 2010 roster:
McCamey = 71 RSCI
Tisdale = UR
Cole = UR
Davis = UR
Jordan = UR
Simpson = UR
Richardson = 35 RSCI
Paul = 49 RSCI
Bertrand = UR
Griffey = UR
Richmond = 18 RSCI*
Leonard = 36 RSCI*
Head = 59 RSCI*
* = summer rankings
Weber inherited 8 top 100 guys; he will have 6 next year."
He will be coaching the 2011 recruits as well. Those seem to be missing in your analysis. Does the future of the program end in May 2011?
"Going with a five-on-five-based analysis:"
Something wrong with that two by two analysis?
"Williams > McCamey
Brown > Richardson
Head < Paul/Richmond
Powell > Davis/Griffey
Augustine > Tisdale
Bench '04 < Bench '10
The only way you could conceivably be right is if you did some screwy average of only the Top 100 players, and even then you'd be making the (erroneous) assumption that Head and Richmond will keep their rankings from last summer."
Facts are facts and the ratings are what they are. Looks like another attempt from one of the haters to modify the facts. You don't see me posting something about how Spears left the program and he shouldn't count in the analysis?
"Or maybe you're taking the best 5 only, which would be dumb since only two of Richmond, Head, Paul, and Richardson will be on the floor at any given time.
As I said, at best it's even."
I thought I was blatantly lying and now it's at best, even. I'd say that when you throw in the 2011 class which has two potential top 100 players. Add in the bench players with higher ratings I'm looking to be correct once again. Certianly not the blatant liar tag that you tried to slip in.
"But to say the incoming recruits are better than what Weber inherited is dumb and overrates his coaching ability."
Better proofread this sentence as it makes no sense.
"He will be coaching the 2011 recruits as well. Those seem to be missing in your analysis. Does the future of the program end in May 2011?"
The roster for 2011-2012 is not, by any means, set. The players have not signed LOIs and do not have any kind of reliable rankings at this time.
"I thought I was blatantly lying and now it's at best, even."
Try reading, from my first post: "If anything, they're roughly equal, but to say they're better is premature."
Premature like my ejaculations, to be more specific.
"The men's tennis team, usually a powerhouse, got smoked last week and barely have enough players to field a team."
You mean the 12th ranked men's tennis team that just beat Duke on the road? The men's tennis team that has lost only to #2 ranked Virginia? The team that has 10 athletes on their roster in a sport that plays 6 minimum?
Getting smoked sounds like a better description of this blog and detlef's career.
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