This is a blog dedicated to informing folks about University of Illinois Athletic Director Ron Guenther and how he has screwed up Fighting Illini athletics. This is especially true regarding football during his tenure. If you live in East Central Illinois and you blindly believe Ron Guenther is the greatest thing to happen to Fighting Illini athletics, don't read this blog! If you care about the Fighting Illini and want to see a winning athletics program, welcome!
posted by Fire Ron Guenther at 4:17 AM
I am not from East Central Illinois, so I am a realist and not a brownnoser of the DIA. I am tired of bad Illinois football and I demand change. Change starts at the top. Ron Guenther must go.
31 Comments:
"Frankly, Coach Guenther should be talking about expanding the Fighting Illini football schedule to give fans at least seven home games, instead of six!"
As frg knows, that discussion is already underway. But that fact doesn't fit with frg's agenda so he choses to ignore it. Those who really "know" frg realize, facts rarely get in the way of his rant.
Looks like I missed the annoucement about not making a change to the football schedule. Of course I don't spend every waking minute doing web searchs on "Guenther" or "Ron" or "Coach," hoping to find some insignificant minutae that I can use some convulted "logic" on to turn into another beotch. Present company, not excluded.
If you hate the FRG blog, go on Illinois message boards and massage the hopes of other fanboys. Let objectivity reign here and go away.
"If you hate the FRG blog, go on Illinois message boards and massage the hopes of other fanboys. Let objectivity reign here and go away."
If I didn't come here, the number of comments would drop 50%, the number of intelligent comments would drop 90% and the average IQ of the bloggers here would drop 99%.
Though I doubt frg could do the math to figure out what the resulting blog would look like :-)
You support Ron Guenther's decision making even though Illinois football has been to 5 bowl games in 19 years, RG pushed for a 50% pay increase for a coach no one was pursuing, and let another school poach the one coach who could have led us to a national championship. How can any intelligent individual support these decisions or the man responsible for them? We can play rhetorical games with business analogies and so forth, but at the end of the day Guenther doesn't have a great track record in the sports that matter to alumni, and your unwavering support betrays certain ignorance rather than any sort of intelligence.
"If I didn't come here, the number of comments would drop 50%, the number of intelligent comments would drop 90% and the average IQ of the bloggers here would drop 99%."
Reveal yourself. Give us a name, so we know what super-genius of Hudson, OH is significantly brighter than the other Illinois graduates who blog or comment here.
"You support Ron Guenther's decision making even though Illinois football has been to 5 bowl games in 19 years, RG pushed for a 50% pay increase for a coach no one was pursuing, and let another school poach the one coach who could have led us to a national championship. How can any intelligent individual support these decisions or the man responsible for them? We can play rhetorical games with business analogies and so forth, but at the end of the day Guenther doesn't have a great track record in the sports that matter to alumni, and your unwavering support betrays certain ignorance rather than any sort of intelligence."
A couple of points-
Your assumption that sports other than football and basketball don't matter to alumni is incorrect. I'm an alumni and I care about and attend other sporting events at Illinois.
I don't support Ron Guenther's hiring of Ron Turner and Ron Zook as head football coaches, nor do I support him retaining the latter. However, that was not the subject of this thread.
As for him letting KU poach the one coach that could lead us to a NC. This is where you and frg and others of similar mindset lose all credibility. There are two big pieces of misinformation in that statement and I really shouldn't have to tell an unbiased and intelligent person what those are. IMO, this is just a desperate attempt to invent issues to bash Guenther with.
In regard to the subject of this thread-
I am ambivalent toward the football schedule which is the subject of this thread. First, I don't have a seat license or season tickets as I live too far away to go to every game. Therefore, it doesn't bother me to see Illinois not have more than 6 home games.
Second, no one here is privy to all the information and numbers that go into scheduling or what the DIA budget is. Therefore, no one except the DIA knows the financial repercussions of buying home games.
Finally, as for "scheduling for success," this is an oxymoron and a pathetic concept. As bad a head coach as Ron Zook is, to believe that you can make him and the program successfull by lining up some patsies is an absurd idea. The key to football success is having the right coach and if you don't make that decision correctly the rest doesn't matter!
I am mind boggled when I read people who think that if you get the Ron Zook football program a home game against Eastern Michigan he will magically become a better coach. That's an insult to everyone's intelligence and it provides Zook an excuse he does not deserve!
In conclusion, you can see that I do not support everything that Ron Guenther does. However, I do use my god given intelligence to evaluate what he has done in a fair manner. And most of what he has done has been very good for Illinois sports. If you are a long time fan you realize he is by far the best AD Illinois has had in at least half a century.
"Anonymous said...
If you hate the FRG blog, go on Illinois message boards and massage the hopes of other fanboys. Let objectivity reign here and go away."
Objectivity implies the use of factual information to support opinions. What you get here is either no facts, incorrect facts or facts used incorrectly. Witness frg and his Guenther's pay is 11% of the DIA budget post. Or the poster who tried to average 3 x the football teeam's winning % with the basketball team's winning %, "because a football game is 3X as valuable." Totally ignoring the fact that the basketball winning % represents 3X as many contests! Both gross misuse of "facts."
No, what you get here is pure unadulterated, agenda based subjectivity.
1) NO ONE CARES ABOUT WOMENS SOCCER. The big time programs are basketball and football, anyone arguing successes in other insignificant programs is beneath me.
2) It does not matter what the subject of the thread is, I was discussing why you come and post here. The object of the blog is to call out attention to Guenther's deficiencies and errs in judgement. The most important sport (from a budget perspective, I know you are partial to Men's Volleyball) deserves the most attention paid to it, and a 5/19 bowl achievement rate is pathetic.
3) Charlie Villanueva had his bags packed and ready to come to Champaign until Self left. The only chance they had to beat UNC in that game was talented inside play, and that could very well have put them over the top. I will admit, this is pure SPECULATION, but you can't tell me you feel confident that we will ever go back to a Final Four with Bruce Weber at the helm.
And for all your talk of how intelligent you are, how can you possibly bring up the argument that 6 home games isn't a big deal because you don't have season tickets? FRG is trying to explain how this is a poor business decision from a budgetary standpoint, and one of your arguments is that you live too far away so no skin off your back? I probably won't get you to admit you're wrong, but you have to admit a blog like this should exist, if at least to call out Guenther for his multitude of mistakes.
"1) NO ONE CARES ABOUT WOMENS SOCCER. The big time programs are basketball and football, anyone arguing successes in other insignificant programs is beneath me."
I don't care about women's soccer etiher, but some alumni do. There are numerous other non revenue sports which I do care about. Also after reading your post, I'm pretty sure there aren't too many people "beneath you."
" 2) It does not matter what the subject of the thread is, I was discussing why you come and post here. The object of the blog is to call out attention to Guenther's deficiencies and errs in judgement. The most important sport (from a budget perspective, I know you are partial to Men's Volleyball) deserves the most attention paid to it, and a 5/19 bowl achievement rate is pathetic."
It's "errors" not "errs." And we don't have a men's volleyball program.
"3) Charlie Villanueva had his bags packed and ready to come to Champaign until Self left. The only chance they had to beat UNC in that game was talented inside play, and that could very well have put them over the top. I will admit, this is pure SPECULATION, but you can't tell me you feel confident that we will ever go back to a Final Four with Bruce Weber at the helm."
The one thing you got correct is that this is pure speculation, not the objective info that you claim is here. I'm not sure if you are trying to blame Villanueva leaving on Guenther or Weber. But it certainly isn't unusual for a recruit to change his mind about a committment during any coaching change. But nice try.
"And for all your talk of how intelligent you are, how can you possibly bring up the argument that 6 home games isn't a big deal because you don't have season tickets? FRG is trying to explain how this is a poor business decision from a budgetary standpoint, and one of your arguments is that you live too far away so no skin off your back? I probably won't get you to admit you're wrong, but you have to admit a blog like this should exist, if at least to call out Guenther for his multitude of mistakes."
As I posted there are several reasons I don't care whether the Illini play more than 6 home games. And as I also posted, no one here has the knowledge necessary to claim that a home game is financially beneficial. Especially not the 'tard that writes this blog.
BTW, still waiting for you to provide one shred of information or a fact that might make your post "objective." Also, who's the one making a multitude of mistakes. Looks to me like you managed to score quite a few in a couple paragraphs.
1) Was that a rebuttal? My point is that successes in these lower programs means nothing, and you point to it as evidence of Guenther's acumen. It's a reach to use that as justification.
2) Err
ntr.v. erred, err·ing, errs
1. To make an error or a mistake.
3) Of course it's normal for a recruit to change his mind when a coach leaves. My original post indicted Guenther for letting Self go, the one big-time coach who had a chance to win a national championship. His decision not to throw everything and the kitchen sink at Self cost us not only Villanueva, but probably Brandon Rush, Julian Wright and Sherron Collins.
Points 1 and 3 are definitely subjective, no doubt about it. Objectively however, I can see that a 5/19 bowl appearance record, particularly when compared to programs at somewhat equal pairing as us (Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri) is horrific and unjustifiable Of course there are parts of this blog that are subjective (it is a blog, after all). But at least FRG tries to splice revenue data and W/L records to show that the numbers don't support the decision making stroking that many media members give to Guenther.
"1) Was that a rebuttal? My point is that successes in these lower programs means nothing, and you point to it as evidence of Guenther's acumen. It's a reach to use that as justification."
This is not a rebuttal, it's not even a logical statement. Success in these programs means something or they wouldn't have the competition. Unless you can provide more clarification to your sentence, I win by default.
"2) Err
ntr.v. erred, err·ing, errs
1. To make an error or a mistake."
Notice the "v?" Stands for verb which is not how err was used in the sentence quoted.
"3) Of course it's normal for a recruit to change his mind when a coach leaves. My original post indicted Guenther for letting Self go, the one big-time coach who had a chance to win a national championship. His decision not to throw everything and the kitchen sink at Self cost us not only Villanueva, but probably Brandon Rush, Julian Wright and Sherron Collins."
Let's see, Self played at OK St., coached at Oral Roberts and Tulsa and had a chance to coach at one of the top 5 all time winning programs right next door to where this all took place. Guenther throwing the kitchen sink at Self was not going to keep him from going "home" to KU. Since we're being subjective, Weber is easily a better overall coach than Self except in recruiting. Given his improved recruiting he could easily take a team to ANOTHER FF.
"Points 1 and 3 are definitely subjective, no doubt about it. Objectively however, I can see that a 5/19 bowl appearance record, particularly when compared to programs at somewhat equal pairing as us (Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri) is horrific and unjustifiable Of course there are parts of this blog that are subjective (it is a blog, after all). But at least FRG tries to splice revenue data and W/L records to show that the numbers don't support the decision making stroking that many media members give to Guenther."
I have yet to see frg provide one piece of "revenue data" in regard to the Illinois athletic program. Your and my definition of data must be different; mine involves numbers and comparison of numbers.
"Or the poster who tried to average 3 x the football teeam's winning % with the basketball team's winning %, "because a football game is 3X as valuable."
That's not 'facts used incorrectly,' it's subjective analysis based on a subjective assumption.
If you learned what words used in arguments actually meant, you might actually have some credibility around here.
Here is the only FACT you need to know:
If Bill Self stayed at Illinois, the 2005 team would have lost in the second round to Nevada.
You mean the Bil Self who has 5 elite eights in 10 years?
"Kevin said...
"Or the poster who tried to average 3 x the football teeam's winning % with the basketball team's winning %, "because a football game is 3X as valuable."
That's not 'facts used incorrectly,' it's subjective analysis based on a subjective assumption.
If you learned what words used in arguments actually meant, you might actually have some credibility around here."
That was the hypothesis presented, which isn't a bad one. It was the incorrect calculation that was performed based on that hypothesis that I was calling "incorrect facts."
You need some basic math and statistics training.
"You need some basic math and statistics training."
And some improvements in your reading comprehension skills.
Hey Hudson, OH.....it is confirmed by Kent Brown, the game at Fresno is ON. 7th home game is OFF! So much for the "discussions", huh? Take another bit off of that lure of the DIA/Guenther/Rivals/Zook/Frangie spin machine!
"Anonymous said...
Hey Hudson, OH.....it is confirmed by Kent Brown, the game at Fresno is ON. 7th home game is OFF! So much for the "discussions", huh? Take another bit off of that lure of the DIA/Guenther/Rivals/Zook/Frangie spin machine!"
Since I don't really care who they play and where, not an issue with me! Side benefit is, it may hasten the end of the Ron Zook era. Plus, maybe the next coach will need the easier schedule in the future as recruiting will have crapped in the interim.
See unlike you I actually care about Illinois athletics and I don't base my opinions on a pathetic agenda.
Kevin - Yes, that is the same Bill Self who lost in the first round in consecutive years to Bucknell and Bradley.
"I don't really care who they play and where, not an issue with me! Side benefit is, it may hasten the end of the Ron Zook era. Plus, maybe the next coach will need the easier schedule in the future as recruiting will have crapped in the interim.
See unlike you I actually care about Illinois athletics..."
If you cared about Illinois football, you would care who they play and where and you would want evasive action taken to prevent the recruiting backslide currently going on (which you admit to seeing).
Also, saying the next coach may need an easier schedule after claiming you don't care about the schedule is a self-contradictory.
"If you cared about Illinois football, you would care who they play and where and you would want evasive action taken to prevent the recruiting backslide currently going on (which you admit to seeing).
Also, saying the next coach may need an easier schedule after claiming you don't care about the schedule is a self-contradictory."
Evasive action? This isn't a driving school, dip shit. It's preventive action or corrective action depending on the timing.
Self-contradictory? It would just be contradictory, but it isn't.
I need a translator to get through these posts!
Self-contradiction: (n) 1. The act, state, or fact of contradicting oneself. 2. An idea or statement containing contradictory elements.
Contradiction: (n) the act of going against; opposition; denial
[thefreedictionary.com]
You "contradict" me or frg or common sense when you print something opposing what we've said. You "self-contradict" when you oppose something YOU'VE said. Generally, in English, we use contradiction for going against third-parties and self-contradiction against oneself. There's a distinction. Don't ignore it.
"Evasive action? This isn't a driving school, dip shit. It's preventive action or corrective action depending on the timing."
evasive (agj): 2. avoiding or seeking to avoid trouble or difficulties.
Way to sidestep the issue completely by being wrong on two entirely new counts, Hudson! You're making Guenther supporters look dumber and dumber by the moment!
"I need a translator to get through these posts!"
You should take some English courses at Cleveland St. Also, look into Logic.
What an idiot, butcher the english language, poor math skills, short on logic skills and yet never admit that you make a mistake.
We'll try again. What's "a self-contradictory," dip shit? It's "a contradiction" or it's "contradictory." Let's hear you admit you make a mistake rather than switch subjects on me.
Kevin, you are proof positive that you can't cure stupid. What's more, you're proving that stupid doesn't even recognize itself.
" Kevin said...
"I need a translator to get through these posts!"
You should take some English courses at Cleveland St. Also, look into Logic."
I think our problem here is that YOU don't understand the English language.
"What's "a self-contradictory," dip shit?"
Let's diagram what you said earlier:
"(1) I don't really care who they play and where, not an issue with me! ... (2) maybe the next coach will need the easier schedule in the future as recruiting will have crapped in the interim. (3) I actually care about Illinois athletics."
Now let's apply a simple syllogism:
Premise a: I care about Illinois athletics.
Premise b: the next coach might need an easier schedule because of recruiting mistakes being made now.
Logical Conclusion: I care about the schedule.
BUT, you contradicted this logical conclusion in your own statement: "I don't really care who they play and where."
Because you contradicted an inherent conclusion in what you said, it's SELF-CONTRADICTORY.
You know, you make fun of frg for being a lousy attorney. If you tried what you did on this site in a courtroom, you would sued for malpractice and disbarred within a month.
Changed the subject again. The statement I made was that it's either "a contradiction" or I'm being "contradictory." It's not being "a self contradictory." Contradictoy is an adjective and you are attmepting to use it as a noun. Total abuse of the English language!
It also not evasive action if the action is taken before the event, as in changing the schedule. It's preventive action.
As for my philosophy on scheduling it's not CONTRADICTORY. As I have posted here before, the only time I think the schedule should be changed to make it easier is in a situation like Zook's first year. At that time it was obvious Illinois talent was not competitive and there was a reason for this. This could be the situation when Zook's replacement is hired. It is now 5 years into Zook's tenure and his difficulties are not related to the current recruiting situation.
Self-contradiction is a noun. Self-contradictory is the adjectival form of that noun. This is standard written English.
Speaking of changing the subject (which I didn't), weren't you the one who started (falsely) attacking my English abilities rather than addressing the content? Yes, yes, I think you were.
Regarding the schedule, it appears you were lying when you said, without qualification, that you don't care who Illinois plays and where. Thank you for clearing that up.
Going back to my earlier post, it appears I made a typo and put an "a" in front of "self-contradictory."
Really, Hudson? A TYPO? You're now going after an obvious TYPO? You have got to be fucking kidding me.
(Note here you've changed your argument. Originally, it was that I misused the word: "Self-contradictory? It would just be contradictory, but it isn't" [and now you've switched to attacking a typo. What a douchebag.)
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